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Gary Jones

 

Posts: 4
Member since: 10/10/2008
 

Layout Tables 

After several months of trying we have not been able to solve our problems. Hopefully some expert here can work their magic.

We used layout tables to create some sixty pages for our sites - HelloBoquete and HolaBoquete.com (spanish). It all seemed to work very well, that is until we published. For some unknown reason, even though our content in FP preview completely fills all of our cells, when viewed on our site there are large areas of blank space below each column. We are using the "height=100%" in our table specs, which works well to realign all the content, but not when it gets published. Many people have tried to figure out what's going on and all have failed. We are looking for a miracle.
  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/10/2008 1:54:13 PM

Malcolm

Posts: 422
Member since: 9/30/2002
From: Texas,USA

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

In checking a couple of your pages you have table cells (td) also set for height ... some are set for over 600 pixels high, well if you dont have the content to fill that cell you will get white space, it will also pull down the other columns in height also.

Personally I dont think you should be setting ANY table or cell heights for the very reason you are now trying to fathom ..... you are forcing the height of cells and they dont all have content to fill.

You are better off getting rid of the heights of tables and cells. Then find another way to accomplish what you want. But if you have more content in one column than another you will get white space in the emptier columns.


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  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/10/2008 11:06:30 PM

d a v e

 

Posts: 870
Member since: 9/24/2002
From: Finland

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

and don't forget that table height has never ¨been valid html ;)

the problems you're having are another reason not to use tables for layout too, but i guess it's a little late for you to turn to divs and css now :)


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d a v e
  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/10/2008 11:40:07 PM

Gary Jones

 

Posts: 4
Member since: 10/10/2008
 

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

Thanks. Sorry, I wasn't getting notification on responses.

Yes, I had suspected that having any cell heights specified was causing some of the problems, but even when we went in and changed every cell to the 100% we still have the same issue of it showing up differently in IE than in FP preview. We cannot find any way to duplicate the same amount of screen Real Estate in our FP design window. We tried actually using a grid layout, with a maximum of 900 pixels for height, but the minute you add any content, the whole page layout goes screwy. Are you suggesting changing all the table cells to using the <div> code? This then means scrapping the whole layout tables routine.

Appreciate your help.
  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/16/2008 8:36:28 AM

TexasWebDevelopers

Posts: 7039
Member since: 9/24/2002
From: USA

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

Hi Gary and welcome to the forums,
I think you will find that you are not so far along that you cannot change over to a CSS layout instead of using tables. With a CSS layout you can easily re-design the site in the future. My other suggestion is to think about putting your page content into a database and calling it out onto the pages (essentially a simple content management solution). My pet peeve, on this page: http://helloboquete.com/index-5.html you are using text underlines that are NOT hyperlinks--very confusing--anything underlined on the web shoud be a hyperlink, otherwise, use <strong></strong> tags to make the text bold and create an uplilt in sight readers for the blind OR use <h1,2,3,4..> tags for headers.


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  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/16/2008 9:42:57 AM

Gary Jones

 

Posts: 4
Member since: 10/10/2008
 

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

Thank you! Very valid point on the underlining. In fact, I was in the process of changing the link colors for that very reason. I am in the process of considering changing over to a new WordPress theme I recently found, so I have been a little lax in site maintenance right now. If you get a second and could give me an opinion on which design you prefer I would value your opinion. It's a whole other direction and I am torn about changing. Test
  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/16/2008 10:54:04 AM

TexasWebDevelopers

Posts: 7039
Member since: 9/24/2002
From: USA

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

From a simple visual perspective I think I like the softness of the first site--the green and cream look is more inviting than the white and gray of the wordpress template. The code of the template, however, is far superior. The look of the template is too austere and, frankly, looks like a template. So, if it were me I'd be playing with the css. Changing the images used for the nav bars and using #FFFFDD instead of the white will make it more appealing. I am guessing the images are located in the template on the wordpress site so you may have to follow the path to the image..copy the images to your own site..and then edit. Ditto for the linked CSS file--grab the file, upload it to your own site and then change the css link to the local path.


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  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/16/2008 11:32:46 AM

Gary Jones

 

Posts: 4
Member since: 10/10/2008
 

RE: Layout Tables (in reply to Gary Jones

Thank you so much for your insight. Yes, I have in fact been emailing back and forth with Brian Gardner, the developer of the theme, on the issue of colors. In one of his posts he had indicated that he was going to produce other style sheets, offering more color options, but now that he is going the open source route I don't know what will happen with this current designs. I was hoping to see something that might better mirror my own design. As someone very new to Word Press, I am very hesitant to redo my entire site in something I am not familiar with, but, except for the color scheme, I did like the very professional layout of the theme. It also makes much better use of the available screen Real Estate, which is very important to me because I want to sell advertising to support the site. My problem with the Flash menu is that it is far too complex for me to try to change to a wider page. I have also had people tell me that it often takes too long to load, which is not good when it is the primary site navigation. I do have the menu along the bottom which also has the standard links, but this isn't very appealing, visually. If I had a wider screen with my current design I see this as being much easier to accommodate various ad sizes than the Word Press theme allows.

My basic concept is somewhat unique for our market. Here in Boquete, Panama we have no 411 service, no Yellow Pages, in fact, no street addresses, so a web presence is very important here to get the message out. It is also a much poorer country and businesses have very limited budgets. My goal was to develop a Business Directory, with listings free for ninety days, then grow this to a banner ad, for example, on our restaurants page. This would then lead to a dedicated section for the restaurant, where they might feature some photos, their menu and a map showing their location, plus maybe some customer reviews. These smaller restaurants could never justify the development costs of having their own web sites, so they would instead have what looks like their own site, but as sub pages on our site, for which they would pay a monthly fee instead of upfront costs. Naturally I would incur the development costs upfront, but these would be recouped over the course of the contract and then, assuming the client remained happy, would continue on in the future, generating additional revenue with no ongoing costs.

The concern at this stage is obviously which format provides a better design to accomplish my goals? I am torn between the somewhat more flexible current design, but with the limitations of the format, or going the Word Press route. One of the advantages of this theme is that it already has an incorporated forum design, plus it offers the blogging, which is becoming more important every day. Using Word Press stimulates more viewer interaction which keeps people coming back to the site. If you look at my blog on the current site you wil see that I attempted to use a theme that has the look and feel of my site, but this proved most difficult to get the Flash menu to work properly so that people could return to other areas of my site. This will be an ongoing issue as new versions of Word Press are released.

My budget is limited, as I have yet to generate any revenue, but if it's something you are willing to look at, maybe you could give me some idea on what it would cost to alter the Flash menu to provide for a wider screen? I do have an earlier version of Flash MX, but when I opened the file it looked way too complicated for me to try to change it.

Thanks.

Gary
  Report Abuse |  Date: 10/17/2008 6:45:18 AM
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